Conversational Hypnosis Technique – Lesson Six – Stacking Realities


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This is a special excerpt from a Private Conversational Hypnosis Class I teach to my Elite NLP/Hypnosis MasterMind Study group.

In This lesson we introduce a new way to understanding pacing and leading, the famous stacking realities conversational hypnosis induction as well as touching on Frame Control, Identities and The Origins of Self Esteem. The example hypnosis inductions are pretty cool too. Lots of great info in this segment.


Hypnosis - Conversational Hypnosis Lesson - Stacking Realities Transcript   

Instant Conversational Hypnosis Lesson 6 – Stacking Realities

Hey This is David from STEALTH Hypnosis and Real World

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We’re going to start doing some change work. We’re going to start working with some of the things you guys mentioned you want to work on. Ok

We’re going to do this in a very specific way.

I thought about going like real neuro-linguistic on you guys, but I think because I want to have you guys get a little bit more used to doing things your own way. That we’re going to we’re going to take a hypnotist approach to this. So we’re going to be
working with a special conversational hypnosis induction.

And we’re going to do some preliminary work before we actually do it.

but the name of the induction as to “STACKING REALITIES.”

or AKA (Also Known As) “the 5…4…3…2…1 (Induction)”

Student: Now I have to think about that every time you say that.

David: Now, the way this works …is this work is based on a concept called,

“Pacing and Leading.”

How many of you actually know what pacing is?
What a pace is?
And what a Lead is?

Student: Like a dance?

David: Well, what is a pace in dance?

Student: A pace is you are following the music, according to the rhythm of the music and you are just following the pace and how many steps. And if you don’t step on her toes you’re doing OK.
David: OK, In this context … NO, that’s not what a pace is.

Student: So your name is David, Right?
David: Yes
Student: You’re an adult? Correct?
David: Ok you’re showing me what a pace is. That’s actually not a pace, that’s not pacing.
Student: Therefore you have adult responsibilities, right? ….. OH? I thought that (in pacing) you got something (got the person to agree to a series of true things) and then you lead them

David: What was my question? What is a pace?

Student: A pace is something that is true.

David: Ok. If we’re going to start working in a terminology … we really need to understand what we’re dealing with. What we’re talking about.

In the context in which Eric learned pacing, the concept of pace, it has to do with the tempo, the rhythm and the speed of the music.

Tangentially related but not specific enough to what we’re doing. Okay

A “pace,” … from our perspective, is anything in the environment, or actually anything that is sensorily (verifiable through our five senses) or cognitively (we know in our mind), is verifiable, as true.

It’s a truism. Either a truism that we can verify through our five senses,

or something that we can, through our awareness internally directed, or externally directed, verify. Okay?

Give me an example of a pace, based on this criterion, Eric.

Eric: A rose smells sweet.

David: OK. Is there anything in this room that is a pace?

Student: You’re sitting on a chair.

David: Yes. Can we verify that he is sitting on a chair? You bet your butt. (yes we can)

Barbara give me another element, or phenomena, that is verifiably true.

Barbara: Any object in the room. The TV.

David: The TV is what?

Barbara: The TV is sitting on the trunk.

David: The TV is sitting on the trunk.

Notice how simple it was, but yet when you come to actually describe it you have to actually think about it a little bit.

Give me another pace.

Student: Well the thing is that we’re here to learn about paces and leads. The question is, why is that map over there?

David: What the hell is that?
{Students laughing}

Student: Another pace and a lead.

David: What was the question?

Student: What was a pace and what was a lead?

David: Are we?

Student: Well we are now.

David: Is that why we’re here? Is that something? Is that a pace or is that a lead?
Part of it is that would be we’re all here. That’s a pace. The lead would be to learn about “X.”

Right we are all here? At least physically right? okay

Let’s be really, really, specific and precise, with their terms. Okay.

As a hypnotist, our language and the specificity and the vagueness of it, are our stock in trade. We no longer deal in just random specificity and vagaries.

We have to know what we mean, and why we mean it, even when we’re trying to be vague.

Does that make sense?

So when we pace, a pace must be something that we can verify!

When you’re communicating a pace to another person. It MUST be something they can verify.

For instance… Barbara, you’re sitting here, looking at me, listening to my words. You are having certain thoughts about those words.

Barbara: I’m not sure about that one. {laughter}

David: Were you in fact sitting here?

Barbara: Yes. I’m sitting here.

David: Were you listening to what I was saying?

Barbara: I was listening.

David: OK. Were you in fact having certain thoughts?

Barbara: No. {laughter}

David: Back to the fact the moment she went inside to start looking for a thought, that is a thought. Right? So you can verify it. Ok.

Student: So was all of that a pace?

David: Most it was a pace, yes. Okay. So as you’re sitting here listening to me speak. Noticing how I’m talking. Paying attention to my voice inflections, and wondering where I’m going with all this.

Student: That was a lead?

David: Yes. Notice how your mind went there.
Right? The magic of paces … is that every time we …. this goes back to “critical factor” bypass.

If you remember in some of our earlier sessions, I’ve described our critical factor, as being this little man. They get the message, and then he runs back to the filing cabinet to find out if there’s something that corresponds with that. When we start pacing, we start sending the little man back and he verifying and he keeps finding truisms.

And after a while, he stops running back and forth, and just starts saying, “well everything they’ve said so far, is true, so everything else must be true.”

Right? So the critical factor goes away. Okay and then after a while the little man can’t tell the difference between what’s a pace and what’s a lead.

He accepts everything, or she accepts everything, based on what we (the hypnotist) say.

Okay? … A lead is anything we want them to DO! {long pause}

So before we go into the actual induction. I like to prime the pump a little bit, and get our brains kind of working into cataloging paces, and cataloging leads.

So what I want you to do is, on a piece of paper, I want you to write down 15, discrete paces, for this environment.

15 Things that are sensorily, (verified through our 5 senses of sight, sound, taste, smell, or touch) …or cognitively (verified in our mind or through our experience), verifiable as true.

and then I want you to write down …15 leads.
15 Things, you might want somebody:
To believe.
To think.
To say.
To pay attention to.
Something that you want them to DO.

The secret to this… is to make the lead, very very simple. Very very easy.

Okay and in many cases, somewhat related to each other.

So for instance, you might say:

So as you’re sitting here, … {pace}
listening to the sound of my voice, … {pace}
hearing the cadence of my words, … {pace}
and the meanings behind those words, … {pace}
and even though they are impacting on you neurologically, {pace}
as well as auditorily…..{pace}

You might begin to wonder how all this is going to come together. {lead}

And as you begin to wonder how all of that is coming together,  {pace}
You may begin to feel yourself starting to feel a little bit more relaxed. {lead}

You could possibly notice that the sensations in your left ear lobe become more pronounced. {lead}

Even though you weren’t paying attention to them before. {lead}
Now you are. {lead}
And as you pay attention to the left ear lobe, … {lead}

All of a sudden the right ear lobe begs for attention. {lead}
As you notice that, your body continues to relax even more. {lead}

[End of Induction example]


So the magic of pacing and leading, is when we start naming things in the environment that are true.

The unconscious mind starts to paint everything with that brush.
As long pass to Leads are plausible, … small enough that they’re not too far

So if I were to say to you, …

“sitting here, … listening to the sound of my voice, … Hearing my words, … wondering possibly what I’m going to say next … and feeling tremendously horny.”

[class laughs]

See the difference?

It’s way out of proportion. It’s not related directly. This is where people screw up when they try to do hypnotic suggestion. Hypnotic copywriting … or anything like that .

They skip transition. They skip the incremental change.

You can take anybody from a North direction to a south direction, if you just slice it small enough.

You make the transition easy, … natural, … conversational, … and you interspersed them with more leads, … more paces. Okay?

This has a slight fractionation effect as well, because
You’re pacing,
You’re pacing,
You’re pacing,
You’re leading.

So all of a sudden you’re pacing, you’re pacing, your pacing, you’re leading.

Student: You’re Lead is Stronger Then?

David: Well as we get into the induction you’ll see how it all fits together.

OK. But the secret here is we need to start thinking in paces in leads.

So take however long it is you need to take.

Write down 15 things that are sensorily verifiably true,
and  15 leads …
and then I’ll show you how to structure it, so you can begin to play.

Okay, to review, this is how I want you to organize:

pace pace pace pace pace lead (5 x 1)

pace pace pace pace lead lead (4 x 2)

pace pace pace lead lead lead (3 x 3)

And of course , pace pace lead lead lead lead (2 x 4)

Then we are going to go

Pace lead lead lead lead lead (1 x 5)

And then it is just lead lead lead lead lead lead. (0 X 6)


So as you sit here listening to the sound of my voice, …
Watching me click my marker, …
Up and down, …
Wondering what my next pace is going to be, …
You can begin to notice, …
How I’m pacing.

Imagining how I’m pacing.

You can begin to wonder what I’m going to do next.

So much so, … as you feel the weight of your body in the chair,
and you’re looking at me and you’re noticing the subtle nuances,
you’re paying more and more attention to what I’m doing
maybe even trying to figure out what I’m going to do next.

you may begin to realize that I’m simply following the formula

on the board, …. by describing things that you know are true.

Am I not ? Describing things which you know are true?

And as you continue to nod, you realize I’m describing things that you know are

Or are true. You can begin to realize that after a while, what’s arguably or verifiably true, versus what I tell you, is simply the way things are. Starts to blur little bit.

They all start to have the same level of truth to them and as the truth of what I’m doing to you begins to just sink in and you can find yourself relaxing more.

Letting yourself just let go, because there’s another part of your mind that’s

paying attention. Another part of your mind that knows how to learn things quickly.

That’s right. [Big breath, long pause]

Student; You’re evil.
David: [chuckles]

Student; I think you’re doing a lot more leads than I’ve written down. No?

David: How would you know?

Student: I was paying attention.

David: Actually I started … I have a different process that I use when I teach. I’m trying to teach you the the standard way that people do it.

I have this thing I do call “cyclic pacing and leading. ” Ok?

This is a little bit different. I don’t want to talk about it now, because it will just confuse you, but literally all I want you to do to understand the nuts and bolts in this
exercise is:

Pick any five random paces, …. plug in a lead
Pick any four random paces, …. plug in 2 leads
Plug in any three random paces, … plugin 3 leads
and just guide the person to where you want them to go.

So again just to start with the five four three two one. [induction]

“As you sit here …. feeling the weight of your body in the chair, …. breathing in and out”

Student: But isn’t that a lead? Feeling the weight of your body

David: Can you verify that you can feel the weight of your body in the chair

Student: but doesn’t that tell me “go feel the weight of your body.”

David: No it’s something you’re going to do. You’re going to go check to see if it’s true.

Student: Ok I see what you’re saying.

David: Right? The moment you check to see if it’s true, “BING!” credibility level goes up. Ok. Parsing goes down, …. critical factor goes “Oh okay” … “Oh okay” …. “Oh okay” and it just goes in.

Right? So again, … get really really simple with this. Ok?

If I were to say, “and your legs are crossed.” Well half of you would be like, “No! And all of a sudden I’ve created a message mismatch. Now you’re going to start mismatching what I’m doing because what I say doesn’t match your reality.

Does that make sense? Ok we want to shut the filters off.

The only way to shut them off is to make sure that our credibility is impeccable.

The way we do that is by getting really really sensorily or cognitively verifiable.

Right? It’s a pretty safe bet that he said, ” As you sit here you’re listening to the sound of my voice,” ….

Whether you are consciously doing it ,or not, you’re unconsciously paying attention, there is a part of your brain that goes, “Okay.” Right?

And I’ll show you how to make it even more [cough] more all-encompassing. Ok?

And what I want you do is going to get with a partner.

Another thing we want to do now is we also want to create an outcome. So say you’re working with Barbara and you want to help her lose 15 pounds OK?

So you’re doing this induction and you start to go for “predicate states,” in other words, what state or sequences of states, would be a natural continuum, for her to cycle through, to reach a point where she’s easily able to change and create change.

So you might say

“As you sit here listening to the sound of my voice,… hearing my words, … noticing the intonation is my voice fluctuates up and down,

Feeling the weight of your body in a chair…
Feeling yourself relax …
and noticing how you’re paying more attention to what I’m saying,

because you know, ….
that what I’m saying is directed at you,

because you know I’m here to help you.

You can begin to relax even more …
and the nice thing about learning to relax even more
is that as you continue to relax letting your shoulders kind of go “aaah ooooo” {loose and limp and relaxed} that’s right.

Relaxation, is a key to learning.
And the times we learn best, are when we are most relaxed, and paying attention.

Kind of like when you were little kid and you came to school, and maybe you were excited about learning something for the first time …

and there was some subject or some thing that your teacher showed you, … or a book, …. you know something you saw in a book somewhere, … and it really excited you about learning. About being able to do something new.

And for some mysterious reason, you got it, like that [snaps fingers indicating you understood immediately]

Sometimes it’s something as simple as learning to flush the toilet.

Or flicking on a light switch… in learning that when the lights switch went on one way… the light went on, and when this switch went off, … well the light turned off.

But we learned instantly and there have been many times in our life we’ve had those
one trial learnings. Whether it was something great and complex or something very very simple. The learning was fun. It was exciting. and it felt good to really own that.

To think about those times, letting those feelings come flooding back, realize that you can still learn quickly. You can still learn deeply and learn to change new things.

Because most to the behaviors that we have, most of activities we engage in, are simply decisions we’ve made based on a positive outcome.

and if we’re holding on to things like weight, or illness, or limiting beliefs, …

It’s not that those beliefs are bad. It’s not that those beliefs mean something’s wrong with us. It’s just what we were thinking at the time.

Based on the information that we had and wouldn’t be true if you think about it. Most of what we believe was based on who we were and what we knew.

And what was going on in the environment at the time.
But isn’t there always something we don’t know?
Isn’t there always some level information that could change the way we look at things.
When you change your perspective.
When you change how you see the world,

And you realize that all that a belief is, … is a decision.

It’s just the way you were thinking, … at the time, ….. and you can always change the way you think. OK?

Can’t you? That’s right. And as you go into that state of deep learning, …. learning how to change, …. learning how to experience the world in new ways, …. getting excited about the possibilities, …. tapping into your own mind, ….

You just let go. Let your “other than conscious mind” open up like a flower.
Ever see a flower open up?  They follow the sun. It’s kind of cool.

And take in new ideas, …. take in nurturing thoughts things that allow you to grow in the right directions and diminish things in other directions because that how flowers work.

When something no longer serves its purpose
Well it drops away … it goes away.

and what’s necessary remains so just like the flower can follow the sun, our behaviors can follow our life, … shedding what’s necessary.

As the situation changes … as new learnings, new opportunities arise, new ways to
moving through the world, as we learn and grow.

Isn’t that just a cool thing?

Now you can come back to the room

Student: {unable to hear what was said}????

David: I know, I know. That’s also fractionation.
[Noise from other room] See they heard me. [laughter]

Right? All I did was begin to just pace things and then leave and then every so often I would come back to a few things that you couldn’t argue with.

The moment I fines, and I give you something you can’t argue with, everything that comes before it, … true. OK?

Student: After the fact.

David: Many times yeah. Because you can only analyze something while you’re thinking about it and as long as I keep talking, you’ll keep processing.

And again when I start to going to “lead land” there may be a certain point where,
you know, it’s too many leads and I get a feeling for when that might be in the come back to something concrete.

Like a flower. We’ve all seen a flower. We all know that flower follows the sun and I create a metaphor based on what flowers do.

You see that the increments were small and they were isomorphic.

Actually this one was I think anthropomorphic? [Having human characteristics]

I forget but it wasn’t a human thing but isomorphic means it wasn’t a person. But I mirrored processed.

Taking in new things, …. shedding what’s not necessary, … just like the old leaves drop away

Right? I know what I mean at a neurological level. Her nervous system knows what I mean, at a neurological level.

Ok? And her brain will, and mind will, interpret that in a way that’s relevant to trans- derivational search. {looking for a fuzzy match}

So…. Questions? …[long pause] …No?

You know, if you think about it, flowers aren’t really troubled by a lack of confidence. Are they?

They just do what they do. And the result happens. Right? Because they’re programed for success. They’re programed. If they just do what’s natural.

Kind of like guys actually. The funny thing about relatively dumb guys is they usually have pretty good success with women.

Because they don’t overthink it. They just approach

They’re not troubled by self-doubt. Did you ever notice that your dog isn’t troubled by self-doubt? He has no self-worth issues, because he has no ego.

Student: can’t you give a better example? [laughter]

David:  I could get into this. Don’t get me started on cats, alright. [laughter]

But the whole idea of frame control, think Orin Klaff Said It’s best. In terms of frame control, the difference between dogs and cats,

dog comes home from the pound or the animal shelter, a little puppy, and the family’s feeding him, and clothing him, and taking care of him and doing all these things, and the puppy goes, “they’re so wonderful. They’re giving me everything. They must be God.”

Cat comes home from the pet shop. They feed it. They take care of it. They bathe it.

The cat goes, “Wow they’re taking care of my needs. ‘I’ must be god.”

Class: laughter.

Student: [makes a comment that we can’t hear.]

David: Perception. Both are equally true. Which frame makes your life better? Which frame gets you more of what you want?

Makes sense? All frames are true.

Alright. I want you to break up into groups of two or three.
I want you to string together any random paces.
I don’t I mean I don’t want them to be tangentially related

It could be everything from “that wall is orange,” to “that map is on the wall.”

To, you know, that floor is some gray weird carpet color.

Right? It doesn’t have to have any logic, rhyme, or reason, to the paces.
And then as we get more comfortable with this process, then of course the “paces” will tend to be more and more related. This makes it even more seamless.

Right? But try to stick as much as possible to the pick …. in fact it that’s why I had you to write two separate lists.

Because it might actually help you to write ….five paces, one lead.
Four paces two leads … and just read it.

Does that make sense?

You can also write sales copy this way.

OK, go play. Make sure you tell your partner what goals you want to achieve … like you want to lose 15  pounds. Or you want to get rid of it.

Do we really want to lose anything?

Secret! We fight harder to keep something, than we do to get something new.

The “Ziegarnek affect” keeps us…. They call it the "Z" technique and in “real-world hypnosis” …

The human brain, the human nervous system, is hardwired, to experience more pain from losing something it currently has, than it will experience pleasure from getting something it hasn’t achieved yet.

You’ll experience more pain from losing the dollar in your pocket, than the pleasure you’ll receive from getting a new dollar. So when you are helping people to remove something ….

Lady Student: You haven’t seen me shop. [laughter]

David: [laughter] Well you’re not losing, you’re buying. Ok?
but if we’re trying to save money … and anyway I’m beating a dead horse.

Student: speaking of relationships, we feel more pain from losing one than from gaining a new one?

David: if it’s something that you value, yes. Most people won’t leave a relationship
because they fear that the next one will be worse, or there won’t be another one,

Student: They won’t leave a relationship because….

David: because there won’t be another one…. Or… the next one will be worse.

That’s self-esteem … that’s self-worth issues. That’s why people stay at lousy jobs and everything else, because they’re afraid they can’t replace what they have or the next one will be worse.

Student: What do you do?

David: You raise they’re self-esteem.

Student: You don’t have to go into this right now but you have ways of doing that?

David: Sure! Yeah you see most our self-esteem is based on what we choose what parts of ourselves we choose to look at and amplify. If you look at the in the mirror every day and just only focused on the things you like, your life would change.

But we don’t. We focus on all things that we think are lacking, because that’s our natural hardwiring and that’s how we’re predisposed.

Also our socialization teaches us that too. Ok, the building blocks for our self-esteem

are actually the voices of our primary authority figures from the time we were born
up through about puberty. That’s where our self-esteem comes from.

We didn’t ask for it. We didn’t give permission for it. It was just stuff that got put in there, by people who meant well. They were doing the best they could under the situation, and circumstances but didn’t know shit from shinola either.

Ok. Those the building blocks for most of us.

Does that mean we’re stuck with it? No!
But you have to understand it in order to deal with it.


Go play.


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Published at: July 4, 2017
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